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mentally ill people be like: i have no idea where to draw the line between what i cannot do because of my disability and when i am guilty of neglecting something i can and should be doing

mentally ill people be like: productivity culture has taught us that if something /can/ be done it should be done, with 0 regard for there being a finite amount of things that can be done, even if on an individual scale they can all be done with relative ease, and i must now face the impossible task of deciding which of these necessary, individually simple tasks i must take on and which i can suffer the crushing weight of guilt for neglecting

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meta, getting real for a sec 

this is actually where a lot of leftist praxis turns me the fuck off tbh. "just recycle it's so important" "just caption images it's so easy" "why is everyone ignorant about this learning about it takes seconds" "being vegetarian/vegan is not nearly as much work as people say" "just repair ur own things instead of buying new ones it's simple and cheap" "why can't everyone remember to cw such basic stuff" and so on and so forth

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meta, getting real for a sec 

you can argue the semantics over which of these items are actually necessary, which are actually easy and feasible, which are exclusive because of accessibility reasons all day. but there is an overarching issue that incorporates them all and many more similar leftist sentiments: no one, not even neurotypical, able-bodied people have the energy to do them all

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meta, getting real for a sec 

even if every single part of being a leftist, every single small thing we can do to participate and make the community happier and safer was 100% simple and 100% accessible for people of all different needs, there's just too many for us all to do them all 100% of the time??

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meta, getting real for a sec 

so it feels like a real spit in the face, particularly @ neurodiverse people who have executive dysfunction issues to be like "why aren't you doing this?? it's so easy? it takes five seconds and makes things infinitely better for everyone?" like we know, okay, we know.

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meta, getting real for a sec 

and it gets muddied because a lot of the time this rhetoric comes from /other/ neurodiverse people, sometimes even about ways we can more appropriately treat ppl with executive function issues!! but we really, really need to take a step back and go "okay, what experiences in my life have made this thing feel like second nature to me? is it possible that the ease with which i can do it is not equal for everyone else?"

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meta, getting real for a sec 

idk lol it's obviously complicated and there's grey areas and nuance and so on and so forth, like there is with everything. i just think we could all stand to have more patience with people sometimes lol

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meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy the image captioning thing, holy shit yea

even back when the UI was downright hostile to it

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy how am I supposed to righteously go off about things for clout when they are so complicated. freakin.... nuanced issues.....

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy you are right about these things and there's not really a simple correct take to have

meta, getting real for a sec 

@Aleums exactly this tho lmao. not even always for clout sometimes people go off because they're actually angry and they've actually been hurt. but like.... just cause we've been hurt doesn't make whatever conclusions we jump to about it correct you know. sometimes a situation is just complicated and you don't have the right to demand other people hurt so u don't have to anymore

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy tristan you are so wise

meta, getting real for a sec, mh 

@myconidiosyncrasy turns out that even seemingly-easy things for neurotypical people, can require spoons that folks like me just don't have. and that shaming me for not doing them does not -- and *will never* -- make me better at doing those things (or any other things), and just feeds into my own infuriating feedback loop of uselessness.

It has taken a long time for me to come to terms with my limited spoons in a day, *please* don't push me back down that cliff.

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy wow yeah, so very much x3

I've been feeling constantly bad since I started the confinement because I see all these people, some nd and some with disabilities, and I'm here, unable to get energy and motivation to do anything else to play ff like "yeah, my adhd cannot be the only reason I'm not doing anything, other nd's are doing stuff too"

isolation re: meta, getting real for a sec 

@furkachi yeah, i also struggle with this a lot :/ particularly seeing other depressed/adhd ppl able to find stuff to do and be productive. it's nice to hear that i'm not the only one lol

isolation re: meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy And me too, to be honest x)

I really like this corner of the fediverse because it brings me a lot, but damn it can sometimes be draining and make me feel guilty for that ^^"

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy what do you say about blocking ppl for requesting a CW or an image description or whatnot?

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy the biggest "fuck you" isn't "I can't do this" but "you want to participate in my spaces? *blocks*"

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy my experience with ppl with executive dysfunction has been that they can do stuff if you help them do it.

like, you can be their "executive coprocessor" to enable them to do executive tasks.

meta, getting real for a sec 

@SoniEx2 @myconidiosyncrasy if i can use you to externalize time and willpower then yes stuff will get done. just be prepared to tell me to do the same shit five hundred times until it gets done. eventually. make sure your timer can run more than one timer at once.

i will exploit your willpower before you exploit my ED.

kinda sucks having to parent yourself, it gets exhausting.

dang tristan you have the most nuanced takes around here!

meta, getting real for a sec 

@SoniEx2 this is where one of the grey areas come in definitely. it's hypothetically every individual's right to not cw something. but when large groups of people do it, it does make a space hostile to people who should be able to navigate it freely. i don't really know where the line should be drawn personally

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy @SoniEx2 My only line is as every other thing in life: if it would actually harm (NB: not merely discomfit) someone to fail to do something, then it should always be done. Otherwise it's best effort.
So CW-wise, I CW common causes of trauma-triggering always, and avoid RTing non-CW triggers, but for other things like "Pol" or "Food" I am more flexible and worry less. Best effort, because I know it helps others.

re: meta, getting real for a sec 

@SoniEx2 it *really* depends on context. in general, with some very noted exceptions, i think people should feel free to request a cw for what they want and also to block people for what they want. if u don't want to cw or image descrip anything, that's your decision. i don't think it's very respectful, but as long as people have the option to block and ignore u, it's allowed. just like blocking someone for asking for a cw is allowed

re: meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy I understand. I tried to word my post to take into account those cases but I couldn't do it.

but really if someone's confused about something I posted, or wants it CWed, or wants an image description, or whatnot. I'd be more than happy to do it. (in particular I have a hard time CWing things and altho I do my best, I often feel like I'm not CWing enough, or properly)

re: meta, getting real for a sec 

@SoniEx2 yeah, i also have a hard time keeping up with cw's. something that like, has informed this thought process for me is the difference between when it's *not nice* for someone to do something, and when it's actually *unacceptable*. it's douchey to not cw something that is widely requested. but should it get u harrassed/ur account deleted? when a) people can block/mute u, and b) there will be ppl like us who just forget to cw stuff?

re: meta, getting real for a sec 

@SoniEx2 also like the whole, "white ppl asking for racism cw'd" discourse. it's plausible that spaces will grow where the vast majority of ppl will request behaviors that aren't acceptable (eg, white majority spaces requesting non white ppl cw stuff in the name of white comfort). while in general it's douchey to not cw upon request, our ability to ignore ppl that do + these edge cases, mean i think it's important we allow ppl a choice about it

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy yeah i wish there was a good word for these kinds of problems, because they come up a lot and they’re always so difficult to handle

(Conflicting access needs is a similar concept, but it’s not quite the same)

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy I think there's also poor communication of expectations within the community. Like, "describe your images" leads a lot of people to think they should be describing them like a novel to help people imagine the image (which can take A LOT of spoons, especially if you're someone who struggles with writing things like that), when just something like "smiling girl" would be enough. And when people actually do detailed descriptions it seems more expected.

meta, getting real for a sec 

@TapiocaPearl @myconidiosyncrasy I take this in the other direction and enjoy writing descriptions to add context or make a joke that description-readers might enjoy. But I'm with you that the minimum is much lower than that: a description that provides the same immediate knowledge ("my dog peeing on some techbro's laptop") is what's expected, everything else is just nice.

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy I've definitely fucked this up even while facing this problem elsewhere. better every day though. thanks for describing it really clearly, this was helpful!

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy that bit about not even NT able bodied people being able to do it is also interesting; I think you could tie it to being worked really hard in order to create value

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy nitpick: idk if I'd call that leftist praxis

I agree with you overall tho

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy to me it's like, modern leftists think doing those things are good, but they're not "Praxis" in an...IMPORTANT sense

meta, getting real for a sec 

@restioson yeah more praxis in the light hearted sort of.... "remember kids doing [x] thing is praxis" jokes. i couldn't think of a better way to describe the small behaviors for positive impact that are normalized particularly in our spaces

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy I'm just a bit touchy after all the radical liberals started asserting that those small things are the only steps we need to change things meaningfully

meta, getting real for a sec 

@restioson yeah :/ weird how "nearly all guilt rests upon the ruling class and defeating them is the only way to a better world" and "if we could all just be responsible for our own carbon footprint things would get better" are two opposing views in our community, when in truth both overcoming the ruling class and being personally responsible for small things are necessary parts of change

meta, getting real for a sec 

@myconidiosyncrasy imo this is why individualism doesn't work. you can beg and moralize about how everyone needs to go vegetarian, or you can design your social system such that eating less meat is the cheap and easy choice. leaving decisions like these to the end consumer is peak liberalism

it doesn't apply for everything on your list here but it sure doesn't help most of them.

@myconidiosyncrasy I'd just like to poke my fluffy head in and point out that this does *not* only apply to mentally ill creatures! I have this /all/ the time with autism.

@myconidiosyncrasy (...I have to admit I saw this and went "wait, are you saying I'm mentally ill?". >.<)
(Because like, disability? Absolutely. Mentally ill? Not at all.)

@IceWolf haha yeah sorry this is meant to be speaking mostly for myself and other people who still consider themselves mentally ill. like obviously anyone can relate, but i don't mean to put the label on people who are uncomfortable with it. i know it's a complex one :/

joking doxxing ref 

@myconidiosyncrasy what the fuck don't doxx me

@myconidiosyncrasy Oh man, that touched a nerve. Didn't understand the rest of the thread really but this toot hit me.

tldr/explanation of thread 

@wabbster a less rambly version of it is:
-sometimes the reason we "can't" do something because of our disability is because we don't have the energy to do *everything*
-for instance, say we can only do 3/5 things a day; 2 important things need to get cut
-everyone spends a lot of time shaming other ppl for not doing things *they personally* consider easy and important, without considering that somebody may already be spending all their energy on other important things

example 1/2 

@wabbster for an example; the dishes need to get washed, i need laundry for tomorrow, i need to eat something, i need to pay a bill, and i need to text my friend. but i only have energy for 3 of those things. i choose to eat, do laundry, and pay a bill so my credit isn't effected. my roommate and friend are mad at me bc i didn't do the dishes/text them back. i could have chosen to do either of those things, but for various reasons, the other 3 were more urgent to me

example 2/2 

@wabbster to my roommate and my friend, doing the dishes and texting people back are both easy and important. they don't understand why i didn't do those things and they assume it's negligence--that i don't care. the truth is i just don't have enough energy to do everything, and i need to prioritize the things that keep me alive. i'm the only person who can make that decision and it's upsetting to be shamed for making the wrong one. i hope this makes sense?

re: example 2/2 

@wabbster the rest of the thread has this same idea, but in the context of things left wing communities often ask us to do; content warnings, background knowledge of leftwing politics, etc. nobody can do *all* of those things

re: example 2/2 

@myconidiosyncrasy First of all, thank you, for taking the time to explain. Also, you've described my condition very well! Fortunately for me, my family gets it, and is appreciative of whatever little I do to help around.

As for your larger point about leftwing communities, I guess fair point, we're expected to be careful and mindful of every little thing. It is annoying, and worse, contributes to our guilt (not sure if I made sense).

Cheers, hope you have a good day!

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